Bagnell said he thinks the discharges are due to both design and manufacturing flaws on SIGs part. congrats. Plastic crap! The sheriff's office said its investigation found no mechanical problems with its deputy's gun. Thats why the US Marines have Sigs. So far I have only heard of one instance (post fix) where there was an ND and the post mortem on the gun demonstrating a mechanical failure. They have similar vertical sear engagement, but the M&P has more engagement width wise. People of the Gun are probably familiar with the early problems the P320 had regarding drop safety. The problem with Sig is with their polymer pistols. The sear cams it back a teeny bit. Circumstances that explained those un-commanded discharges.. OR some gorilla with more brawn than brains ignored the 40lb trigger pull they suddenly had to break the tab. Both companies, instead, took to pro-gun industry forums to offer a rebuttal, giving no opportunity to answer questions. Maybe its a technical issue, maybe its a training issue. Much has been made of Nimoys Spock being the most popular character in TOS, but Id argue that without Shatners over-the-top swagger and brash manner, the balance would be lost. in 2021," Bagnell said of the overall scope of the concern . U.S. lawsuits He wasnt aware of it until contacted earlier this week by CBC News and suggested it was relevant in ongoing litigation in the U.S. We look forward to reviewing the incident in discovery in the United States, he said Friday. Got a 40 SW P320 SC on my hip now, got one in 9mm within reach, so far neither has decided to trip the sear without my help. Contacted late Friday, a spokeswoman for special forces said the investigation is still ongoing and would not confirm the companys findings. Asked if the guns in these cases could have been mishandled, Villani responds, When I see videos of police officers getting out of their car and their weapon discharges in their holsters, nah, theres a problem with the gun. ABC then ran bodycam footage of a pre-upgrade P320 firing as a Michigan state trooper exited his patrol car in 2016 with no mention of the results of any subsequent investigation. Not much detail is provided in any of those other claimed incidents, but a few stand out. Thats just myopic brand lust on parade. Sig makes a damn fine weapon and theres nothing wrong with it. I could care but that came at the expense of reliability and safety. Really, that JJA ship looks like something the folks at PlaySkool built, its terrible. Posts: 21156 | Registered: November 05, 2003. To put it simply, they are expensive cheaply made junk. ALL OF THEM. He takes your wallet and car and leaves the SIG. Combine this with the complacency that comes with handling a firearm over-and-over again as you holster and unholster a firearm throughout the day, its not surprising that many of these officers are saying it just went off as a negligent discharge can cost them their job if it lead to serious injury or property damage. Thinking its okay to wrap a loaded gun in a towel and toss it into a gym bag is what we get when departments refuse to hire candidates who score too high on IQ tests. No Warp core, just a quantum singularity, The engine was basically a dorm fridge. Theres a couple of possibilities. ABC ran their story on the P320 twice, but with some significant differences between the two reports. Hilton's $15 million lawsuit said, "there have been 54 reported uncommanded discharges of the P320," meaning the gun went off by itself, over the last five years in 22 states and Washington, D.C. Sig Sauer did not respond to ABC News' request for comment. 2) The p320 does have a half cocked notch. The use of a modified [SIG] P226 holster created an unsafe condition by allowing a foreign object to enter the holster, causing the unintended discharge.. No autographs, No self taken pictures. PDs are dropping them from contracts. Theyve now come to the attention of the legacy media. No you haters are not smarter than the US military, who tested the P320 far more than your favorite YouTuber ever did. To make the striker leg pull off of the sear, you would have to impart a lot of rearward momentum and stop it suddenly. When he put his hand on the grip, the weapon fired, according to the lawsuit. With the redesign, you would have to implement a LOT of force to move the trigger backwards. You need a lead that can be the lightening rod and not be afraid to make an ass of themselvesit give the watcher permission to take it seriously. This is just blind greed using some careless doofus to sell a lie and cash in because a civil jury, like the average American voter, can be manipulated easily though emotion, tears and stories of anguish, pain and suffering at the foot of some super-rich evil corporations cold-blooded behest. ABCs own hired consultant, who appears to have no dog in these fights, asserted that he could find no reasonable explanation for these claims and that he considers the upgraded P320 pistols safe for sale to law enforcement and the public. Likewise, having a finger in the trigger-guard, or a clothing draw-string, or a retention strap, or some other object, when holstering the gun exonerates the maker, as the gun is firing with a trigger press of sufficient energy and stroke as designed. There are a few examples, I admitS&Ws M&P from around 2014 were near junk and I wouldnt have bothered to own one as a trotline weight, but apparently S&W had righted that ship since then. Even if it was an issue with the sear interface, there is still a firing pin safety that will not move unless the trigger is held firmly to the rear. They both underwent full testing but while the Sig was the cheaper handgun ($1.50), it also quoted higher costs for magazines and spare parts, boosting the overall cost of the acquisition. This gun had been voluntary upgraded. But breaking news here, skippy. Sig Sauer's headquarters are located in New Hampshire at Pease International Tradeport. The safety WILL prevent the gun from firing with a trigger pull when activated, but it should never come to that. (c) If conduct constituting an offense under this section also constitutes an offense under another . Everyone knows Glocks are the absolute pinnacle of perfection and have never had one single defect ever! While we dont have the actual numbers of similar lawsuits filed against other gun makers actually no one individual or organization seems to keep track of these things and gun makers dont want to talk about it it seems highly likely that every major firearm manufacturer gets its share of a regular flow of lawsuits filed by both civilians and LEOs who claim SHAZAM! The problem was strikers. Pity that some of the most common reactions fall into two over simplistic categories: 1. They cant even make claim to doing a twice a year qual. A plastic gun that has a tendency to go off by itself. Everyone remembers the problems the Beretta M9 had, but it got sorted and they went on to serve over 30 years. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. I didnt even touch it! DND/CAF is not in a position at this stage in its investigation to offer insight into the potential causes because our investigation scope is broader than the technical aspect pertaining to the unintended discharge of the pistol.. I have no idea. I know there are those who will vehemently disagree with me, and even disparage me but I have been following this issue from early on, BUT I recall CLEARLY that there have been dozens and dozens of discharges that could not be attributed to operator error and people experiencing these uncommanded discharges both before AND after getting the trigger upgrade. . The Glock fails on both counts. It was expensive. Zero in the affirmative. In a straight up Glock vs. Sig battle, the United States Marines chose Sig, and that was AFTER watching the P320 perform for four years. Attorney Bagnell held up the law enforcement officers he represents as examples of people who are highly trained in carrying and using firearms. selling the 365 with strikers breaking? Alec Baldwin fatally shot a cinematographer and injured a director with a prop gun on the set of the film "Rust" and the distraught actor repeatedly asked afterwards why he . Have you ever put a handgun down with your palm in front of the muzzle? You would have to conclude theres a problem with the product, not with the people., In the Nightline version, Bagnell says, Firearms are not subject to federal regulation. Then without any extra effort, the normal trigger pull caused the tab on the drop safety to sheer off. This is what happens when you go with the lowest bidder. And they would not have done that for no reason at all. SIG Sauer, a German weapons maker with its U.S. headquarters in Newington, N.H., issued a statement Friday in response to a CBC News report earlier this week that revealed the Nov. 5, 2020, incident and the fact the weapon, the SIG P320, had been withdrawn from service while the military conducts an investigation. Trying to categorically say Brand X is better than Brand Y! 3. And many departments across the country have had to lower their standards for passing qualifications just to be able to hire on and keep officers. 3) If the sear fails, there is the drop safety in the way of the striker. My gun just went off! Who knows. If it were the guns, there would be thousands of cases involving citizensbut there arent. three changes to the original design. The new Kirk does suck. I used to laugh at his bragging about how skilled he was with a weapon.. Its not credible to claim that people with this amount of training, this amount of skill are all shooting themselves.. At least the Gorilla is still evolving while the Far Right proved to be an evolutionary dead end, one of natures mistakes. While it seems that I have a preference for battle ships, The Romulans had Warbirds. Remember also that with a handful of notable exceptions, modern firearms do not just go off, no matter what is later claimed by those who may be held responsible. NEWINGTON - A Hillsboro man is suing Newington gunmaker Sig Sauer alleging his Sig P320 pistol fired, without him pulling the trigger, causing a bullet to be discharged into his thigh. Heres the version that ran Tuesday morning during the networks Good Morning America program . SIG doesnt so you get killed by a punk with a Hi Point. (b) An offense under this section is a Class A misdemeanor. On the other hand, would we also condemn him for violating Rule 2 if the bullet had travelled through his outside wall, entered the adjacent house, and killed a resident thereof, or would we maybe, just maybe, place some blame on the manufacturer who created the pistol? My bet would be that someone had a fully loaded gun in a gym bag and a cloth or rag snagged the trigger. You need to deliberately thumb the Pythons hammer back to get that trigger pull, each and every time. These cops seem pretty dang stupid if they put loaded guns in gym bags and purses with other stuff and carry them around, especially a gun that lacks manual safeties. The second, longer version of the ABC story again included comments from Joshua Harrison, the consultant ABC hired to independently assess the P320. Remember the highly trained FBI officer whose gun went off in a nightclub? Now when you lose your grip on lawn mowers or snow blowers they will not keep travelling foreword all by themselves. Note that Harrisons comment about these claims possibly being the result of legal momentum were edited out of the longer Nightline version of the report. The linkage isnt, but the way the striker leg and sear face mate up, the two materials being MIM castings, the small camming action, etc. As to prong 2, there is a considerable difference between the mechanism of a 320 and, say, ones basic Glock, in that a 320 is fully cocked, whereas a Glock is half-cocked until the trigger is fully depressed, with the striker remaining locked by the striker safety plunger until that is released by a cam on the trigger bar. So I give a ton of credit to Shatner for reading the reality of what it was and in essence, saving it. You simply may not PREFER one make to another, or may simply dislike another make, but were to the point in semi-auto pistol production history where amongst the big brands, the only real distinctions are preference. What I can say is that article reads like a hit piece on the individuals who may or may not of made mistakes with their firearms from someone who worships at the alter of sig. One, the energy necessary to lift the striker-securing safety plunger may be insufficient due to a too-weak spring, or a too-light plunger, or some other design flaw, to reliably engage the plunger where it belongs. Too expensive to use their customers as beta testers. If it was so bad, why did the US Marines, who had the Glock, drop it in favor of the carry sized P320, the M18? He had to be reprimanded by the range officer twice for unsafe handling of his pistol. The Nightline segment includes an interview with Major Peter Villani, an expert (paid) witness for Hilton. First I have no problem with the Mk 25 or any other Sig thats metal. My trust for Sig stopped after they produced the beloved Sig556xi Russian. That could happen easily. He points to it in the video. Harrison responded, No, I dont think the upgraded version should be recalled, in fact I think the previous version should be recalled so that everyone has the upgraded version.. . No, it doesnt. . Police officers do NOT get a lot of training unless theyre doing it on their own time at their own expense. So your fanboy perjorative falls not only flat but false. To me it was unreal, $600 to ask a question about WOK and a picture. For instance theres Lieutenant Thomas Ahern who was was performing a routine function (test) of his P320 when it fired at him without any force towards the trigger, resulting in the bullet impacting his left thigh..
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